That is not the argument I'm making. I'm making the argument that one problem is that the public services you support cannot withstand these levels of immigration.
Only if we also insist on making it difficult to work here legally. One of the stupider things we're doing is making all these folks wait around in shelters for months without letting them work. Pretty much all of them would rather be out earning a paycheck and renting their own space, but they'd be breaking the law by doing so.
This is about a year old, but to the best of my knowledge the situation hasn't improved:
Chapter 5 is called "No Mans Land". It covers "cheap rhetorical dodges" both sides use. I don't mean to point out DB because he's not the only one, but man here are the dodges.
Whataboutism - Hey he did the same as Trump!
Straw-manning- you think people are trying to get into the country because of the massive wealth redistribution policies of the US government?
Minimaztion- how has it "degraded astonishingly"? Is the immigration level too high? I don't know? Do you?
I suppose the Motte & Bailey argument will be along soon.
That is not the argument I'm making. I'm making the argument that one problem is that the public services you support cannot withstand these levels of immigration.
Only if we also insist on making it difficult to work here legally. One of the stupider things we're doing is making all these folks wait around in shelters for months without letting them work. Pretty much all of them would rather be out earning a paycheck and renting their own space, but they'd be breaking the law by doing so.
This is about a year old, but to the best of my knowledge the situation hasn't improved:
I don't know what the actual constraints are here, but I don't understand why the feds aren't working to relax these work rules.
Again. I disagree. There are all kinds of challenges incorporating people from different cultures, speak different languages, work experience, not even to mention the security concerns. The children need schooling and the schools may not be equipped for them.
Think about it this way, Chicago and NYC are saying uncle and they have to deal with a fraction of this compared to places on the border.
And I'm all for immigration. We're all immigrants at the end of the day. I am not arguing against immigration. But we cannot continue to take on people at this rate. The border is there for a reason.
Chapter 5 is called "No Mans Land". It covers "cheap rhetorical dodges" both sides use. I don't mean to point out DB because he's not the only one, but man here are the dodges.
Whataboutism - Hey he did the same as Trump!
Straw-manning- you think people are trying to get into the country because of the massive wealth redistribution policies of the US government?
Minimaztion- how has it "degraded astonishingly"? Is the immigration level too high? I don't know? Do you?
I suppose the Motte & Bailey argument will be along soon.
you're wrong 3 times
1. saying that Biden is essentially following Trump's immigration policies is not whataboutism. look up the definition. My point being that Biden is mostly just doing what Trump was doing, contra your implication that Biden has drastically changed policies.
2. You said the following:
The reason we need borders has quite a bit to do w/ a lot of the policies you and others here support. Take from the rich(though really the working American) and give the poor.
Which I characterized as:
you think people are trying to get into the country because of the massive wealth redistribution policies of the US government?
That is not a strawman. I repeated what you said, using different words and some hyperbole.
3."how has it "degraded astonishingly"?" is a question asking for details to support your contention that it has "degraded astonishingly". It is not an attempt to minimize. The rest of your 3rd point. Yeah maybe, but my points are still legitimate. Is immigration too high? How do you even answer that question? Your main complaints about these levels of immigration were to point out that it's straining services. OK. So we pay for more services. Do you think we can't afford it?
Having said all that, let me ask you this. Do you think Republicans should support the immigration bill currently being negotiated in Congress?
Think about it this way, Chicago and NYC are saying uncle and they have to deal with a fraction of this compared to places on the border.
A big part of what Chicago and NYC are struggling with is providing shelter and services. My point is that if we let these people work they wouldn't need the cities to be doing this to such an extent. We're enforcing idleness on some of the most motivated, hard working people you could hope to find.
What if we took steps to strengthen organized labor. I wonder if organized labor today would make it harder to hire undocumented workers at low wages. You will recall that the United Farm Workers under Caesar Chavez were concerned about this very issue.
When I listened to this NPR piece on a chicken processing plant in Albertville, AL, my thought is that a strong union would have prevented some of these problems.
I'm not the biggest fan of organized labor but I am positive that having a strong labor movement to offset the power of the monied interests makes our nation healthier.
How about putting the able body men in boot camp? Five years in the military and they get their green cards. Some of you believe these people will do anything for a job? Not quite so, they have heard of the benefits they will get once they come across the border and claim asylum. Picking strawberries??…those farms are already filled with laborers. There’s just not enough work for the thousands of people coming across the border every day. Let’s be realistic.
How about putting the able body men in boot camp? Five years in the military and they get their green cards. Some of you believe these people will do anything for a job? Not quite so, they have heard of the benefits they will get once they come across the border and claim asylum. Picking strawberries??…those farms are already filled with laborers. There’s just not enough work for the thousands of people coming across the border every day. Let’s be realistic.
and what benefits do you think they get from our great, all encompassing welfare state?
Or, you know, just let them work where they can find employment instead of legally barring them from earning a paycheck.
in nyc they are already looking for work. They leave the hotels and the encampment at Bennett field during the day and go around looking for work. They don’t stay inside all day and night. In fact some of them are already committing crimes, nypd is overwhelmed, try making an arrest and they beat up the police. Wtf is going on here? You guys need to wake up. Nobody wants to hire them in the city. You go by the Home Depot in Newark watch the disaster it is. This attitude of the liberals is what will sink Biden. Enough!
in nyc they are already looking for work. They leave the hotels and the encampment at Bennett field during the day and go around looking for work. They don’t stay inside all day and night. In fact some of them are already committing crimes, nypd is overwhelmed, try making an arrest and they beat up the police. Wtf is going on here? You guys need to wake up. Nobody wants to hire them in the city. You go by the Home Depot in Newark watch the disaster it is. This attitude of the liberals is what will sink Biden. Enough!
Or, you know, just let them work where they can find employment instead of legally barring them from earning a paycheck.
in nyc they are already looking for work. They leave the hotels and the encampment at Bennett field during the day and go around looking for work. They don’t stay inside all day and night. In fact some of them are already committing crimes, nypd is overwhelmed, try making an arrest and they beat up the police. Wtf is going on here? You guys need to wake up. Nobody wants to hire them in the city. You go by the Home Depot in Newark watch the disaster it is. This attitude of the liberals is what will sink Biden. Enough!
These are some bad hombres, man. Murderers, rapists and yes, there might be a few good ones.
Meanwhile, Germany was able to roll out the welcome mat for 1M Syrian refugees.
Our problem isn't just the number of people piling up on the border with Mexico seeking entry. It is politically difficult or impossible to come up with a solution. The knee-jerk response is along the lines of what jaytee is saying.
Meanwhile, Germany was able to roll out the welcome mat for 1M Syrian refugees.
Our problem isn't just the number of people piling up on the border with Mexico seeking entry. It is politically difficult or impossible to come up with a solution. The knee-jerk response is along the lines of what jaytee is saying.
Did they accomplish this feat without adjusting policy at all? From US Customs and Border Protection- Encounters are 7 times higher in FY 23 than in FY 17. See table at bottom of post.
And none of this is consistent with Bident's past take on immigration policy. Go figure.
You may have heard about TX Gov. Abbott’s defiant letter claiming the feds have "broken the compact between the United States and the States" by not fixing the border. That choice of language is no accident. It is from South Carolina's 1860 declaration of secession.
in nyc they are already looking for work. They leave the hotels and the encampment at Bennett field during the day and go around looking for work. They don’t stay inside all day and night. In fact some of them are already committing crimes, nypd is overwhelmed, try making an arrest and they beat up the police. Wtf is going on here? You guys need to wake up. Nobody wants to hire them in the city. You go by the Home Depot in Newark watch the disaster it is. This attitude of the liberals is what will sink Biden. Enough!
where the hell do you get your news from?
about that story about the migrants beating up the police.
For weeks now, Republicans & Democrats have been raising alarm about an "unprovoked attack" against NYPD in Times Square. NYPD only released a highly edited 45 second video. Now new videos contradict them.
I assume most police are good people but some police are corrupt and untrustworthy. If these cops are doing this with body cams, imagine what happens without body cams.
in nyc they are already looking for work. They leave the hotels and the encampment at Bennett field during the day and go around looking for work. They don’t stay inside all day and night. In fact some of them are already committing crimes, nypd is overwhelmed, try making an arrest and they beat up the police. Wtf is going on here? You guys need to wake up. Nobody wants to hire them in the city. You go by the Home Depot in Newark watch the disaster it is. This attitude of the liberals is what will sink Biden. Enough!
where the hell do you get your news from?
about that story about the migrants beating up the police.
there was something weird about this story from the beginning
in nyc they are already looking for work. They leave the hotels and the encampment at Bennett field during the day and go around looking for work. They don’t stay inside all day and night. In fact some of them are already committing crimes, nypd is overwhelmed, try making an arrest and they beat up the police. Wtf is going on here? You guys need to wake up. Nobody wants to hire them in the city. You go by the Home Depot in Newark watch the disaster it is. This attitude of the liberals is what will sink Biden. Enough!
where the hell do you get your news from?
about that story about the migrants beating up the police.
there was something weird about this story from the beginning
Joe Biden's administration has admitted transporting migrants on secret flights into the U.S. and lawyers for its immigration agencies claim revealing the locations could create national security 'vulnerabilities'.
Customs and Border Protection has refused to disclose information about a program last year secretly arranging flights for thousands of undocumented immigrants from foreign airports directly to U.S. cities.
It means that while record numbers of migrants were flowing over the southern border last year, the Biden White House was also directly transporting them into the country.
Use of a cell phone app has allowed for the near undetected arrival by air of 320,000 aliens with no legal rights to enter the United States.
Joe Biden's administration has admitted transporting migrants on secret flights into the U.S. and lawyers for its immigration agencies claim revealing the locations could create national security 'vulnerabilities'.
Customs and Border Protection has refused to disclose information about a program last year secretly arranging flights for thousands of undocumented immigrants from foreign airports directly to U.S. cities.
It means that while record numbers of migrants were flowing over the southern border last year, the Biden White House was also directly transporting them into the country.
Use of a cell phone app has allowed for the near undetected arrival by air of 320,000 aliens with no legal rights to enter the United States.
Joe Biden's administration has admitted transporting migrants on secret flights into the U.S. and lawyers for its immigration agencies claim revealing the locations could create national security 'vulnerabilities'.
Customs and Border Protection has refused to disclose information about a program last year secretly arranging flights for thousands of undocumented immigrants from foreign airports directly to U.S. cities.
It means that while record numbers of migrants were flowing over the southern border last year, the Biden White House was also directly transporting them into the country.
Use of a cell phone app has allowed for the near undetected arrival by air of 320,000 aliens with no legal rights to enter the United States.
I see your critical reading skills have not improved.
where exactly is the "admission"?
It's the headline of the article. You want to get into a semantic argument now? Are you saying Biden is going to focus on this in his State of the Union? Is he super proud of this? Are you saying that we voted for this? Will he campaign on it? What the **** is your point?
is it Biden's fault that encounters have increased?
he's deporting people like there's no tomorrow. the system is stretched to the limit - not his fault.
he's basically following all of Trump's border policies, for which he's been roundly criticized by the left.
and what exactly is it that you think he should be doing that he's not? wave a magic wand? has anyone on your side proposed solutions? "closing the border" is not a solution - it's a catch phrase.
you're just buying into hysteria.
I should add that you are pivoting from this as your argument, which was clearly factually incorrect.
Remember when Mayorkas bragged about ending nearly all of Trump's immigration policies in 2021....
"We have rescinded so many Trump immigration policies, it would take so much time to list them!"
When it wasn't election time, the Biden administration was proud to have an open… pic.twitter.com/qtsst7KodL
Joe Biden's administration has admitted transporting migrants on secret flights into the U.S. and lawyers for its immigration agencies claim revealing the locations could create national security 'vulnerabilities'.
Customs and Border Protection has refused to disclose information about a program last year secretly arranging flights for thousands of undocumented immigrants from foreign airports directly to U.S. cities.
It means that while record numbers of migrants were flowing over the southern border last year, the Biden White House was also directly transporting them into the country.
Use of a cell phone app has allowed for the near undetected arrival by air of 320,000 aliens with no legal rights to enter the United States.
It’s a legal humanitarian program, the flights are commercial flights, participants pay for their own tickets, and the CBP One app not only documents their arrival but documents a U.S. sponsor and offers a work permit.
It's the headline of the article. You want to get into a semantic argument now? Are you saying Biden is going to focus on this in his State of the Union? Is he super proud of this? Are you saying that we voted for this? Will he campaign on it? What the **** is your point?
"It's the headline of the article" sums up the problem with the article. You let yourself get duped into adopting their framing. The reality -
It’s a legal humanitarian program, the flights are commercial flights, participants pay for their own tickets, and the CBP One app not only documents their arrival but documents a U.S. sponsor and offers a work permit.
These are people who are applying the way all the Republicans also say that people should apply - in their own country, going through the procedures, having a support system in place before they arrive. But a propagandist puts an inflammatory description on it and some people lose their ability to assess the facts.
Joe Biden's administration has admitted transporting migrants on secret flights into the U.S. and lawyers for its immigration agencies claim revealing the locations could create national security 'vulnerabilities'.
Customs and Border Protection has refused to disclose information about a program last year secretly arranging flights for thousands of undocumented immigrants from foreign airports directly to U.S. cities.
It means that while record numbers of migrants were flowing over the southern border last year, the Biden White House was also directly transporting them into the country.
Use of a cell phone app has allowed for the near undetected arrival by air of 320,000 aliens with no legal rights to enter the United States.
I see your critical reading skills have not improved.
where exactly is the "admission"?
It's the headline of the article. You want to get into a semantic argument now? Are you saying Biden is going to focus on this in his State of the Union? Is he super proud of this? Are you saying that we voted for this? Will he campaign on it? What the **** is your point?
my point is that there are no facts in that article. it is just a collection of claims from CIS, which is not a journalistic organization.
maybe it's accurate, maybe not. but you certainly can't tell from that piece.
1. @elonmusk told his 175 million followers on this platform that Biden committed "treason" by "secretly" chartering flights to bring 320K "illegal immigrants" to the United States
Let's be clear: EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS CLAIM IS A BRAZEN LIE
Only if we also insist on making it difficult to work here legally. One of the stupider things we're doing is making all these folks wait around in shelters for months without letting them work. Pretty much all of them would rather be out earning a paycheck and renting their own space, but they'd be breaking the law by doing so.
This is about a year old, but to the best of my knowledge the situation hasn't improved:
https://www.npr.org/2023/03/12/1158834874/asylum-dreams-remain-elusive-for-tens-of-thousands-of-migrants-bused-to-new-york
I don't know what the actual constraints are here, but I don't understand why the feds aren't working to relax these work rules.