The Trump Tax Scam

I think this article deserves it's own thread.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-tax-schemes-fred-trump.html

I can't help but think how anxious he was to get rid of the "Death tax".  It's like he's undoing laws that his family broke already.


it won't make a difference. His cult will say it shows how smart he is. 


his cult is really starting to scare me. they are no really no longer tethered to reality.


And where were the tax authorities when these grifters were scamming government? A newspaper many, many, years later figuring out what the tax people should have done?

Grifters not paying their share and thereby increasing our tax burden. I guess Leona Helmsley was correct - only little people pay taxes.

I received a notice from bank stating the importance of know you customer, that 10,000 or more cash transactions have to be reported to treasury, so forth, blah, blah, blah. To help prevent money laundering. What a joke considering we allow Russian oligarchs to drop many millions in cash when buying real estate.


ml1 said:
it won't make a difference. His cult will say it shows how smart he is. 

 And perhaps how clever he is in mocking a sexual assault survivor. Remember when Vietnam Era was tearing us apart? No comparison to today's divisions. These current divisions aren't as "respectable" as pro/anti-war, civil rights, etc. These divisions are more clear.  

When Trump became a "politician" rather than a local NYC buffoon, we danced around labeling those who followed this sick bastard. "Let's try to understand the Trump voter." "Let's read current literature about the disaffected white working class."

To support this evil siht is to be immoral. I'm ashamed to live in a country led by Trump.


drummerboy said:
his cult is really starting to scare me. they are no really no longer tethered to reality.

 When I see clips of his speeches, I look past Trump to the people standing behind him and try to imagine what it must be like. I drove behind one of these folks today (in traffic). I live in an area on the border of RI/MA so the license plates are a mix. I always speed up or change lanes just to catch a glimpse of the driver and imagine his (it's always his") life and family.

Yup, I'm really self-righteous here. But I've never felt this sure of my position.


If you try to think of the people who voted for Trump as millions of individuals instead of a monolithic voting bloc, this article potentially has more significance. Not everyone who voted for him did it because they're a mindless supporter of a demagogue. 

For some people it was the only option to try and outlaw abortion. They won't care. A lot of people are indoctrinated from childhood that abortion is a mortal sin and a moral outrage for our nation. It's their one and only issue. Trump is doing what they want. His taxes are not significant in the face of what they perceive as an enormous evil. You can argue til you're blue in the face, but take anyone (even you) and teach them from infancy that abortion is mass murder and that belief will stick. Hard. 

Some people voted for him because they desire lower taxes and a smaller less influential federal government. His personal finances might make them uncomfortable but as far as they're concerned he's lowered taxes (a totally separate debate) and his administration is cutting regulations. 

There are plenty of people who Trump brought along (about 12 million from the primary results) who fell for the whole "America is in the dumpster and white people are getting the shaft" canard he stoked. They won't care.

Then there are a bunch of people somewhere in the center who were not feeling the benefits of a reviving economy who voted for Trump because they felt like the system had failed them. They bought the notion he was an outsider who might actually make things work differently. Some of those people could probably be swayed, with enough evidence of Trump's crookedness, to not vote for him in 2020.

I'm probably oversimplifying, but not as much as just dismissing everyone who voted for Trump as part of a cult. It's more of a coalition, and some parts of it can probably be reached with a more progressive message.


mrincredible said:

Then there are a bunch of people somewhere in the center who were not feeling the benefits of a reviving economy who voted for Trump because they felt like the system had failed them. They bought the notion he was an outsider who might actually make things work differently. Some of those people could probably be swayed, with enough evidence of Trump's crookedness, to not vote for him in 2020.

There is a retired Army Major running for the House in West Virginia as a Democrat is and is making an overwhelmingly Republican district competitive.  He was 100% behind Trump in 2016.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/03/politics/richard-ojeda-west-virginia-trump-country-congress/index.html


I am the executor of my parents estate and received a lengthy survey from the IRS with the pretext that that have complaints re the complexity of closing out the estate -- I felt as thought it was all centered around Trump and his croonies trying to find a basis for changing tax laws etc. Simplification means less reporting etc....What makes filing difficult is the fact my mom was dead so we could not ask her questions !


mrincredible said:
If you try to think of the people who voted for Trump as millions of individuals instead of a monolithic voting bloc, this article potentially has more significance. Not everyone who voted for him did it because they're a mindless supporter of a demagogue. 
For some people it was the only option to try and outlaw abortion. They won't care. A lot of people are indoctrinated from childhood that abortion is a mortal sin and a moral outrage for our nation. It's their one and only issue. Trump is doing what they want. His taxes are not significant in the face of what they perceive as an enormous evil. You can argue til you're blue in the face, but take anyone (even you) and teach them from infancy that abortion is mass murder and that belief will stick. Hard. 
Some people voted for him because they desire lower taxes and a smaller less influential federal government. His personal finances might make them uncomfortable but as far as they're concerned he's lowered taxes (a totally separate debate) and his administration is cutting regulations. 
There are plenty of people who Trump brought along (about 12 million from the primary results) who fell for the whole "America is in the dumpster and white people are getting the shaft" canard he stoked. They won't care.
Then there are a bunch of people somewhere in the center who were not feeling the benefits of a reviving economy who voted for Trump because they felt like the system had failed them. They bought the notion he was an outsider who might actually make things work differently. Some of those people could probably be swayed, with enough evidence of Trump's crookedness, to not vote for him in 2020.
I'm probably oversimplifying, but not as much as just dismissing everyone who voted for Trump as part of a cult. It's more of a coalition, and some parts of it can probably be reached with a more progressive message.

 just for the record, I don't think of all Trump supporters as part of a cult. When I think cult, I think of the morons who go to Trump rallies and cheer every bit of nonsense that comes out of his mouth.

Though, also for the record, you can argue that any Republican (absent Trump) can be considered part of a different cult, considering the amount of bushwah they're required to support/believe that is in direct conflict with reality. But that's a different discussion.


drummerboy said:



 just for the record, I don't think of all Trump supporters as part of a cult. When I think cult, I think of the morons who go to Trump rallies and cheer every bit of nonsense that comes out of his mouth.
Though, also for the record, you can argue that any Republican (absent Trump) can be considered part of a different cult, considering the amount of bushwah they're required to support/believe that is in direct conflict with reality. But that's a different discussion.

 Some voted for Trump because they automatically vote Republican. Some voted for Trump because they thought Hillary was the devil.


The Times article used words, scam and fraud.... baiting the Orange Buffoon to sue for defamation. The problem is, if he sues, the first thing the Times lawyers will subpoena in response, will be his tax returns.


LOST said:


drummerboy said:

 just for the record, I don't think of all Trump supporters as part of a cult. When I think cult, I think of the morons who go to Trump rallies and cheer every bit of nonsense that comes out of his mouth.
Though, also for the record, you can argue that any Republican (absent Trump) can be considered part of a different cult, considering the amount of bushwah they're required to support/believe that is in direct conflict with reality. But that's a different discussion.
 Some voted for Trump because they automatically vote Republican. Some voted for Trump because they thought Hillary was the devil.

Yeah, this cuts both ways. There are diehards in both parties, some of whom could probably not explain the major party positions.

I think the 2017 special Senate election in Alabama holds some lessons. Roy Moore's personal conduct probably cost him that race. I can't find the numbers any more but one thing stood out to me, which was that about 10% of self-identified evangelical Christians voted for Doug Jones. That's huge, and meant the difference in 2017 and possibly the balance of the Senate in 2019. A Republican in Alabama should have locked up those votes.

Trump won by a slim margin in three key states. Maybe all you need is to turn a couple of hundred thousand voters minds with stories like this. 

(But her emails...)


mrincredible said:


LOST said:

drummerboy said:

 just for the record, I don't think of all Trump supporters as part of a cult. When I think cult, I think of the morons who go to Trump rallies and cheer every bit of nonsense that comes out of his mouth.
Though, also for the record, you can argue that any Republican (absent Trump) can be considered part of a different cult, considering the amount of bushwah they're required to support/believe that is in direct conflict with reality. But that's a different discussion.
 Some voted for Trump because they automatically vote Republican. Some voted for Trump because they thought Hillary was the devil.
Yeah, this cuts both ways. There are diehards in both parties, some of whom could probably not explain the major party positions.

Absolutely true - but I'd also have to argue that Democratic policies are usually pretty rooted in reality, so it's ok to be a die-hard Dem without detailed knowledge of how a policy is meant to work, because a Dem proposal (generally speaking) is built to work in the real world, so it's ok to trust them.  That's the way it's supposed to be. (I mean christ - Pelosi has already announced that if the Dems take the house, she will re-institute Pay-Go rules - which, if you ask me, is declaring that the Dems are going to cut their own legs off before they even propose anything. Pay-go, under certain circumstances, is a responsible position. But not in these circumstances. Pelosi is wrong here.)

But modern Repubs have reneged on that whole trust thing. They regularly lie about how their policies are supposed to work, or what their effects will be. If you simply believe them, you're being conned.


Party membership is like tribe membership. A huge number of people stick with their parties no matter what. For example, Republicans believe Kavanaugh is telling the truth, and Democrats believe Ford is telling the truth. Evidence doesn't seem to have much weight. Majority ought to win, but we see that isn't always the case, particularly because of the electoral college.



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