Is DeSantis worse than trump?
no. He won't get the national admiration T**** did unless he starts a reality show ASAP.
I don't see him exciting any base beyond FL. Has he name-called his opponents? Come up with any catchy catch phrases (Build the Wall / Lock her up)? Not sure where his is on the Lie-meter - but I'm guessing he'll need to ramp that up a bit to compete with the orange guy.
He's way scarier than Trump. He's a real fascist in a nice suit with an Ivy League degree.
ml1 said:
He's way scarier than Trump. He's a real fascist in a nice suit with an Ivy League degree.
plus his military career in the navy. Served in Iraq.
I'm hoping the party is completely divided. I can't see MAGAs going to DeSantis. So many Trumpers came out at rallies and said they never voted before so they may return to their world.
DeSantis will get the Rs who just want a conservative agenda.
If Dems run somebody very charismatic, (nothing against Joe but he did leave wiggle room yesterday, answering if he will run again) it could be against a divided R party.
DeSantis has to work on his wardrobe choices, if he's going to run for President.
Trump is going nowhere. He raised a ton of money with his stop the steal nonsense. He spent none of it to help the GOP this election cycle. He has a ravenously devoted fan base of millions of followers.
Republicans may not like it but it was their rules that let him win the nomination in 2016 and it could happen again in 2024. He needs a plurality of voters in a bunch of states. If it’s him head-to-head against DeSantis from the start, maybe DeSantis edges him out. If a few more Republicans like Youngkin or Noem line up and start dividing the votes into smaller slices of the pie, Donald may do what he always does and grab the biggest slice for himself.
What could the GOP do in that case? Should they look at adopting a Superdelegate system in advance of 2024? If they attempt to intervene in the regular delegate process to box him out and he has the requisite votes for the nomination he’ll litigate them to death.
I know a lot of people think he could never win the nomination again but I’m not one of them. He won in 2016 with a popular vote of just over 14 million. I think he could find 14 million votes again. He would not likely win Florida against DeSantis. But he might pick up a win in Texas which he lost to Ted Cruz last time.
mrincredible said:
Trump is going nowhere. He raised a ton of money with his stop the steal nonsense. He spent none of it to help the GOP this election cycle. He has a ravenously devoted fan base of millions of followers.
Republicans may not like it but it was their rules that let him win the nomination in 2016 and it could happen again in 2024. He needs a plurality of voters in a bunch of states. If it’s him head-to-head against DeSantis from the start, maybe DeSantis edges him out. If a few more Republicans like Youngkin or Noem line up and start dividing the votes into smaller slices of the pie, Donald may do what he always does and grab the biggest slice for himself.
What could the GOP do in that case? Should they look at adopting a Superdelegate system in advance of 2024? If they attempt to intervene in the regular delegate process to box him out and he has the requisite votes for the nomination he’ll litigate them to death.
I know a lot of people think he could never win the nomination again but I’m not one of them. He won in 2016 with a popular vote of just over 14 million. I think he could find 14 million votes again. He would not likely win Florida against DeSantis. But he might pick up a win in Texas which he lost to Ted Cruz last time.
I agree with this. And while the GOP may find itself divided at the beginning of the primary season, they will all almost certainly fall into line behind their nominee like they did in 2016. Anyone hoping that Republicans will stay divided and thus blow their electoral chances in 2024 is likely fooling themselves.
ml1 said:
I agree with this. And while the GOP may find itself divided at the beginning of the primary season, they will all almost certainly fall into line behind their nominee like they did in 2016. Anyone hoping that Republicans will stay divided and thus blow their electoral chances in 2024 is likely fooling themselves.
I agree. When all is said and done, should their worshipful master not be selected, then the highest priority with that base is sticking it to them liberals.
ml1 said:
I agree with this. And while the GOP may find itself divided at the beginning of the primary season, they will all almost certainly fall into line behind their nominee like they did in 2016. Anyone hoping that Republicans will stay divided and thus blow their electoral chances in 2024 is likely fooling themselves.
You are clearly a person of keen intellect.
I think a dream scenario would be DeSantis squeaking by and getting the nomination, then Trump taking his millions and millions and millions from his campaign treasury and mounting an independent campaign. he will no doubt raise many millions more than he currently has from his devoted following.
I also think Morgana is absolutely right. There is a large chunk of Trump voters who won’t bother to show up for DeSantis.
I also wonder what effect the Dobbs decision will have on fundamentalist Christian voters in the future. Will they be satisfied that Roe v. Wade has been overturned, or will they still come out in large numbers to support candidates who are pushing for anti-abortion legislation. That may not seem like a trump versus DeSantis issue, but I think it’s definitely going to be something which frames every presidential campaign for 2024. Primary or general. I am guessing there will be Republicans who take the position that the Dobbs decision has made abortion a state by state question, and that is the end goal. There will be others who are pushing for a national legislative ban on abortion. It will be interesting to see who lines up in what category over the next two years.
mrincredible said:
ml1 said:
I agree with this. And while the GOP may find itself divided at the beginning of the primary season, they will all almost certainly fall into line behind their nominee like they did in 2016. Anyone hoping that Republicans will stay divided and thus blow their electoral chances in 2024 is likely fooling themselves.
You are clearly a person of keen intellect.
I think a dream scenario would be DeSantis squeaking by and getting the nomination, then Trump taking his millions and millions and millions from his campaign treasury and mounting an independent campaign. he will no doubt raise many millions more than he currently has from his devoted following.
I also think Morgana is absolutely right. There is a large chunk of Trump voters who won’t bother to show up for DeSantis.
I also wonder what effect the Dobbs decision will have on fundamentalist Christian voters in the future. Will they be satisfied that Roe v. Wade has been overturned, or will they still come out in large numbers to support candidates who are pushing for anti-abortion legislation. That may not seem like a trump versus DeSantis issue, but I think it’s definitely going to be something which frames every presidential campaign for 2024. Primary or general. I am guessing there will be Republicans who take the position that the Dobbs decision has made abortion a state by state question, and that is the end goal. There will be others who are pushing for a national legislative ban on abortion. It will be interesting to see who lines up in what category over the next two years.
I don't think the hardcore Trumpers will necessarily sit out the election in large numbers. It depends on how much Fox News, OANN, Breitbart, QAnon, etc. can rile them up about how evil the Democratic nominee is.
I'm not sure how DeSantis would play nationally if he ran against Trump. DeSantis doesn't have that bizarre reverse-charisma that Trump has that the die-hard Trumpers love.
I also don't buy the "it was Trump's fault" narrative that has sprung up so quickly. Any analysis of a complex series of hundreds of races that comes out the day after the election is bound to be wrong. Remember "economic insecurity"?
It will be Ron, not Don, campaigning for Walker if smart people have any say.
If trump was smart enough he would have named DeSantis as his running mate. But instead he’s gone on the offensive calling him names, like he does with everyone who he sees as an opponent. Trump’s ego will be the political death of him. I’m thinking the Bush/Romney republicans will go with DeSantis, and MAGATs will stick with trump.
It sure will be an entertaining coming two years.
The chances that Trump would ever name DeSantis as his running mate are absolute zero. He would spend all of his time being paranoid that DeSantis would undermine him or poison his cheeseburgers.
Ain't happening.
sbenois said:
poison his cheeseburgers.
Please elaborate.
I agree. A Trump/DeSantis ticket would be one too many giant egos. Both of these guys would want the top spot.
Trump would only pick someone (he thinks) is weaker or dumber than he is as a vp. Also, needs to keep evangelist vote (80% of them voted for Walker). Tulsi or (if she wins... or maybe even if she loses) Lake.
here's an interesting tweet. it would hopefully set off an alarm or two at DOJ.
Uh... you did what now? pic.twitter.com/CeFXbS9m34
— Ben Collins (@oneunderscore__) November 11, 2022
dave said:
Trump would only pick someone (he thinks) is weaker or dumber than he is as a vp. Also, needs to keep evangelist vote (80% of them voted for Walker). Tulsi or (if she wins... or maybe even if she loses) Lake.
I could see him with Lake. She would shamelessly feed his ego.
Morganna said:
I could see him with Lake. She would shamelessly feed his ego.
And she even speaks like him.
sbenois said:
The chances that Trump would ever name DeSantis as his running mate are absolute zero. He would spend all of his time being paranoid that DeSantis would undermine him or poison his cheeseburgers.
Ain't happening.
You got it.
People like Trump select weak VP's. If you have a strong VP there is a likelier possibility of the 25th Amendment being invoked. Which Pence should have done.
Also, when you're a narcissist, you're the star. There is no room for any competition.
RTrent said:
You got it.
People like Trump select weak VP's. If you have a strong VP there is a likelier possibility of the 25th Amendment being invoked. Which Pence should have done.
Also, when you're a narcissist, you're the star. There is no room for any competition.
That’s why my comment above was “if trump was smart enough he would pick DeSantis as his running mate.”
Roger Stone says it’s illegal to have the two from the same state. I doubt it’s illegal. Look at it this way, trump gets four years, then DeSantis runs for president in ‘28. But we all know trump is his own worse enemy…
Jaytee said:
RTrent said:
You got it.
People like Trump select weak VP's. If you have a strong VP there is a likelier possibility of the 25th Amendment being invoked. Which Pence should have done.
Also, when you're a narcissist, you're the star. There is no room for any competition.
That’s why my comment above was “if trump was smart enough he would pick DeSantis as his running mate.”
Roger Stone says it’s illegal to have the two from the same state. I doubt it’s illegal. Look at it this way, trump gets four years, then DeSantis runs for president in ‘28. But we all know trump is his own worse enemy…
it's not illegal. But the Constitution prevents electors from voting for a POTUS and VP from the same state. So it might as well be illegal.
Jaytee said:
That’s why my comment above was “if trump was smart enough he would pick DeSantis as his running mate.”
Roger Stone says it’s illegal to have the two from the same state. I doubt it’s illegal. Look at it this way, trump gets four years, then DeSantis runs for president in ‘28. But we all know trump is his own worse enemy…
Florida electors would be prohibited from voting for both.
Article II of the Constitution states: “The electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for two persons, of whom one at least shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves.” So in a close election you wouldn’t want two candidates from Florida with its large number of electoral votes.
It’s an odd rule that’s still in effect even after the presidential election process was modified by the 12th Amendment in 1804. It could have had an effect in 2000 but Cheney changed his residence from Texas to Wyoming before the election. Otherwise the Texas electors could have been prevented from casting their ballots for Bush/Cheney.
Trump could pursue a similar strategy and change his residence to New York or New Jersey. But as I said before DeSantis is too big a threat to Trump. Pence was the perfect bland and staid counterpart in 2016. I think he would look for someone similar or a deeply sycophantic person.
ml1 said:
it's not illegal. But the Constitution prevents electors from voting for a POTUS and VP from the same state. So it might as well be illegal.
thanks for clarifying.
Does anyone think Pence will run? It seems as if the media is so focused on DeSantis that Pence has been forgotten.
Morganna said:
Does anyone think Pence will run? It seems as if the media is so focused on DeSantis that Pence has been forgotten.
yes. Youngkin also. I’m telling you that it will be great entertainment to see trumpenstein debating all his ole time associates in the primaries. Biden most likely gets a second term.
“To me, DeSantis is the scarier prospect,” one Democratic strategist said. “He’s a smarter version of Trump, he’s way more strategic, and he doesn’t have a hundred lawsuits at his feet.“
I am thinking the same thing. We have some tough decisions to make soon. I’m pleased to see so many young people voted yesterday, and I feel they will be our best hope for the future of this country.