After

I am trying to figure out how to prepare for recession and world war, once the tarriffs and tax reductions take place, and we abandon NATO and give Ukraine to Russia. But while doing so, I am committed to democracy. The people have spoken, and I will support our President. I am an American at the end of the day. 

I'm curious what you mean by supporting him.

I accept the election results and acknowledge he's prez, but I certainly don't support him.

drummerboy said:

I'm curious what you mean by supporting him.

I accept the election results and acknowledge he's prez, but I certainly don't support him.

I think, in the abstract, we all hope he has a successful presidency --- defining that as one that benefits the country, at large. 

However, based on the voting in Mpl/So, few of us expect that to be the result.

I would rather be looking for ways to prevent recession and war.  Since I lack the power, resources and contacts to do this on my own on the global scale needed, I plan to focus locally on making our community a safer one for all of us.  Hopefully, enough people will agree with me for this movement to take hold.  There is a lot of work for us to do even here in our so called "bubble."  If we can work together to build a stronger, more accepting and respectful community, we will have a better chance of weathering whatever the new administration throws at us.   

Formerlyjerseyjack said:

drummerboy said:

I'm curious what you mean by supporting him.

I accept the election results and acknowledge he's prez, but I certainly don't support him.

I think, in the abstract, we all hope he has a successful presidency --- defining that as one that benefits the country, at large. 

However, based on the voting in Mpl/So, few of us expect that to be the result.

to me, the only successful presidency he could have is where he fails at everything he tries.

drummerboy said:

Formerlyjerseyjack said:

drummerboy said:

I'm curious what you mean by supporting him.

I accept the election results and acknowledge he's prez, but I certainly don't support him.

I think, in the abstract, we all hope he has a successful presidency --- defining that as one that benefits the country, at large. 

However, based on the voting in Mpl/So, few of us expect that to be the result.

to me, the only successful presidency he could have is where he fails at everything he tries.

speak from experience?

We were headed for WWIII with Harris and probably recession too. We were headed for the decline of the US dollar--because Joe Biden gambled with that and lost. The Ukraine war needs to end even if it means losing territory (and Trump is going to have a difficult time ending it and he's not going to "abandon" Ukraine).  You are right to worry about Democracy because we have not had that in some time and its loss is not because of Trump.

I don't like Trump, but he's not Hitler and, unlike the neocon Biden White house (which Harris was going to continue), he's not a warmonger.  This is a huge positive shift, even if it's led by an orange baboon. We had Trump before and survived--he sucked but so did Biden, even if CNN told you he was great (and not senile for years). People voted for Trump because they saw that the Democrats had abandoned ordinary people and they perceived Trump as a better alternative.  He's not, but what other choice did they have?  Anytime someone who actually cares about people runs, the Democrats run them out of the party or neuter them.  They work for the donor class, not you. 

  Some of you need to realize that you were living in a bubble and consider expanding your media sources.  The best journalism is on Substack/YouTube/Rumble, Twitter, etc.  now, not CNN. I'm not saying you have to stop watching what you like, but please include some other sources--listen to the other side and the alternative sides.  Watch videos and read articles on blogs/Substack, etc.  This is where the news is now.  Legacy media is dying because most have figured out it's just state run propaganda.  Not saying everyone on Substack speaks truth, but there are other views available who are logical and you will get a more rounded perspective. 

If you are scratching your heads about why the country rejected what you consider sane politics for what seems to you insane, you need to realize you were participating in Manufactured Consent for the last four years, not reality. 

nan said:

We were headed for WWIII with Harris and probably recession too. We were headed for the decline of the US dollar--because Joe Biden gambled with that and lost. The Ukraine war needs to end even if it means losing territory (and Trump is going to have a difficult time ending it and he's not going to "abandon" Ukraine).  You are right to worry about Democracy because we have not had that in some time and its loss is not because of Trump.

I don't like Trump, but he's not Hitler and, unlike the neocon Biden White house (which Harris was going to continue), he's not a warmonger.  This is a huge positive shift, even if it's led by an orange baboon. We had Trump before and survived--he sucked but so did Biden, even if CNN told you he was great (and not senile for years). People voted for Trump because they saw that the Democrats had abandoned ordinary people and they perceived Trump as a better alternative.  He's not, but what other choice did they have?  Anytime someone who actually cares about people runs, the Democrats run them out of the party or neuter them.  They work for the donor class, not you. 

  Some of you need to realize that you were living in a bubble and consider expanding your media sources.  The best journalism is on Substack/YouTube/Rumble, Twitter, etc.  now, not CNN. I'm not saying you have to stop watching what you like, but please include some other sources--listen to the other side and the alternative sides.  Watch videos and read articles on blogs/Substack, etc.  This is where the news is now.  Legacy media is dying because most have figured out it's just state run propaganda.  Not saying everyone on Substack speaks truth, but there are other views available who are logical and you will get a more rounded perspective. 

If you are scratching your heads about why the country rejected what you consider sane politics for what seems to you insane, you need to realize you were participating in Manufactured Consent for the last four years, not reality. 

I thought you preferred the Kremlin as a news source.

yahooyahoo said:

nan said:

We were headed for WWIII with Harris and probably recession too. We were headed for the decline of the US dollar--because Joe Biden gambled with that and lost. The Ukraine war needs to end even if it means losing territory (and Trump is going to have a difficult time ending it and he's not going to "abandon" Ukraine).  You are right to worry about Democracy because we have not had that in some time and its loss is not because of Trump.

I don't like Trump, but he's not Hitler and, unlike the neocon Biden White house (which Harris was going to continue), he's not a warmonger.  This is a huge positive shift, even if it's led by an orange baboon. We had Trump before and survived--he sucked but so did Biden, even if CNN told you he was great (and not senile for years). People voted for Trump because they saw that the Democrats had abandoned ordinary people and they perceived Trump as a better alternative.  He's not, but what other choice did they have?  Anytime someone who actually cares about people runs, the Democrats run them out of the party or neuter them.  They work for the donor class, not you. 

  Some of you need to realize that you were living in a bubble and consider expanding your media sources.  The best journalism is on Substack/YouTube/Rumble, Twitter, etc.  now, not CNN. I'm not saying you have to stop watching what you like, but please include some other sources--listen to the other side and the alternative sides.  Watch videos and read articles on blogs/Substack, etc.  This is where the news is now.  Legacy media is dying because most have figured out it's just state run propaganda.  Not saying everyone on Substack speaks truth, but there are other views available who are logical and you will get a more rounded perspective. 

If you are scratching your heads about why the country rejected what you consider sane politics for what seems to you insane, you need to realize you were participating in Manufactured Consent for the last four years, not reality. 

I thought you preferred the Kremlin as a news source.

You heard wrong. But be aware, what you think about Kremlin news applies to CNN/MSNBC/NPR etc al.  

BarneyGumble said:

drummerboy said:

Formerlyjerseyjack said:

drummerboy said:

I'm curious what you mean by supporting him.

I accept the election results and acknowledge he's prez, but I certainly don't support him.

I think, in the abstract, we all hope he has a successful presidency --- defining that as one that benefits the country, at large. 

However, based on the voting in Mpl/So, few of us expect that to be the result.

to me, the only successful presidency he could have is where he fails at everything he tries.

speak from experience?

what does that even mean?

nan said:

We were headed for WWIII with Harris and probably recession too. We were headed for the decline of the US dollar--because Joe Biden gambled with that and lost. The Ukraine war needs to end even if it means losing territory (and Trump is going to have a difficult time ending it and he's not going to "abandon" Ukraine).  You are right to worry about Democracy because we have not had that in some time and its loss is not because of Trump.

I don't like Trump, but he's not Hitler and, unlike the neocon Biden White house (which Harris was going to continue), he's not a warmonger.  This is a huge positive shift, even if it's led by an orange baboon. We had Trump before and survived--he sucked but so did Biden, even if CNN told you he was great (and not senile for years). People voted for Trump because they saw that the Democrats had abandoned ordinary people and they perceived Trump as a better alternative.  He's not, but what other choice did they have?  Anytime someone who actually cares about people runs, the Democrats run them out of the party or neuter them.  They work for the donor class, not you. 

  Some of you need to realize that you were living in a bubble and consider expanding your media sources.  The best journalism is on Substack/YouTube/Rumble, Twitter, etc.  now, not CNN. I'm not saying you have to stop watching what you like, but please include some other sources--listen to the other side and the alternative sides.  Watch videos and read articles on blogs/Substack, etc.  This is where the news is now.  Legacy media is dying because most have figured out it's just state run propaganda.  Not saying everyone on Substack speaks truth, but there are other views available who are logical and you will get a more rounded perspective. 

If you are scratching your heads about why the country rejected what you consider sane politics for what seems to you insane, you need to realize you were participating in Manufactured Consent for the last four years, not reality. 

yet again, a gish gallop of wrongness.

people voted for trump because they don't know what an effing tariff is and think that brown hordes are about to invade their towns and eat their pets.

nan said:

We were headed for WWIII with Harris and probably recession too. We were headed for the decline of the US dollar--because Joe Biden gambled with that and lost. The Ukraine war needs to end even if it means losing territory (and Trump is going to have a difficult time ending it and he's not going to "abandon" Ukraine).  You are right to worry about Democracy because we have not had that in some time and its loss is not because of Trump.

I don't like Trump, but he's not Hitler and, unlike the neocon Biden White house (which Harris was going to continue), he's not a warmonger.  This is a huge positive shift, even if it's led by an orange baboon. We had Trump before and survived--he sucked but so did Biden, even if CNN told you he was great (and not senile for years). People voted for Trump because they saw that the Democrats had abandoned ordinary people and they perceived Trump as a better alternative.  He's not, but what other choice did they have?  Anytime someone who actually cares about people runs, the Democrats run them out of the party or neuter them.  They work for the donor class, not you. 

  Some of you need to realize that you were living in a bubble and consider expanding your media sources.  The best journalism is on Substack/YouTube/Rumble, Twitter, etc.  now, not CNN. I'm not saying you have to stop watching what you like, but please include some other sources--listen to the other side and the alternative sides.  Watch videos and read articles on blogs/Substack, etc.  This is where the news is now.  Legacy media is dying because most have figured out it's just state run propaganda.  Not saying everyone on Substack speaks truth, but there are other views available who are logical and you will get a more rounded perspective. 

If you are scratching your heads about why the country rejected what you consider sane politics for what seems to you insane, you need to realize you were participating in Manufactured Consent for the last four years, not reality. 

try this fact on for size:

Biden saved the pensions of 1.2 million union workers

600k of those were teamsters

Not one R voted for this

teamsters apparently went 60% for Trump.

It's wrongheaded to think that all people who voted for Trump are stupid or racist.  There were many reasons to reject Kamala Harris and each one of them was a big deal.  Many people felt Trump was the lesser evil or they just did not vote or voted 3rd party.  The Democrats can either honestly face these issues or they can go out of business.  They did not learn from their loss in 2016, but maybe they will have to learn something this time. 

But it's about making the donor class happy, not ordinary people. 

nan said:

It's wrongheaded to think that all people who voted for Trump are stupid or racist.  There were many reasons to reject Kamala Harris and each one of them was a big deal.  Many people felt Trump was the lesser evil or they just did not vote or voted 3rd party.  The Democrats can either honestly face these issues or they can go out of business.  They did not learn from their loss in 2016, but maybe they will have to learn something this time. 

But it's about making the donor class happy, not ordinary people. 

I agree the Democrats need to face their issues. 

However, people voted for Trump for one or more of several reasons. Take your pick. They are racists, xenophobes, misogynists, bigots, homophobes, Islamophobes, greedy, and/or stupid.

I know a lot of very smart successful people that voted for Trump. They are just plain greedy and want be as wealthy as possible.

yahooyahoo said:

nan said:

It's wrongheaded to think that all people who voted for Trump are stupid or racist.  There were many reasons to reject Kamala Harris and each one of them was a big deal.  Many people felt Trump was the lesser evil or they just did not vote or voted 3rd party.  The Democrats can either honestly face these issues or they can go out of business.  They did not learn from their loss in 2016, but maybe they will have to learn something this time. 

But it's about making the donor class happy, not ordinary people. 

I agree the Democrats need to face their issues. 

However, people voted for Trump for one or more of several reasons. Take your pick. They are racists, xenophobes, misogynists, bigots, homophobes, Islamophobes, greedy, and/or stupid.

I know a lot of very smart successful people that voted for Trump. They are just plain greedy and want be as wealthy as possible.

I think you are a Democrat that needs to face your issues and it's not going well.  

There are people, especially in Michigan, who voted for Trump because they won't vote for genocide and that is a red line.  It's true that Trump is not likely to do better but presently the Biden/Harris administration are the ones overseeing this.  These people wanted to vote for someone who could win so they did not vote 3rd party.  

These people would call you a genocide supporter for your Harris vote.  You are a person for whom genocide was not a red line.  It was acceptable for you. That makes you, according to those with that view, a type of racist, and all the other things you mentioned, including stupid.

I'm not calling you these things.  I'm just saying that your view of "the other" is very narrow and benighted.

nan said:

yahooyahoo said:

nan said:

It's wrongheaded to think that all people who voted for Trump are stupid or racist.  There were many reasons to reject Kamala Harris and each one of them was a big deal.  Many people felt Trump was the lesser evil or they just did not vote or voted 3rd party.  The Democrats can either honestly face these issues or they can go out of business.  They did not learn from their loss in 2016, but maybe they will have to learn something this time. 

But it's about making the donor class happy, not ordinary people. 

I agree the Democrats need to face their issues. 

However, people voted for Trump for one or more of several reasons. Take your pick. They are racists, xenophobes, misogynists, bigots, homophobes, Islamophobes, greedy, and/or stupid.

I know a lot of very smart successful people that voted for Trump. They are just plain greedy and want be as wealthy as possible.

I think you are a Democrat that needs to face your issues and it's not going well.  

There are people, especially in Michigan, who voted for Trump because they won't vote for genocide and that is a red line.  It's true that Trump is not likely to do better but presently the Biden/Harris administration are the ones overseeing this.  These people wanted to vote for someone who could win so they did not vote 3rd party.  

These people would call you a genocide supporter for your Harris vote.  You are a person for whom genocide was not a red line.  It was acceptable for you. That makes you, according to those with that view, a type of racist, and all the other things you mentioned, including stupid.

I'm not calling you these things.  I'm just saying that your view of "the other" is very narrow and benighted.

Trump supports Netanyahu and Putin and Kim Jong Un and you are saying Democrats that voted for Harris are for genocide. 

Netanyahu is Donald Trump 2.0. Netanyahu and his far-right supporters are overjoyed Trump won the election. People that voted for Trump because they don’t want genocide are delusional.

yahooyahoo said:

nan said:

yahooyahoo said:

nan said:

It's wrongheaded to think that all people who voted for Trump are stupid or racist.  There were many reasons to reject Kamala Harris and each one of them was a big deal.  Many people felt Trump was the lesser evil or they just did not vote or voted 3rd party.  The Democrats can either honestly face these issues or they can go out of business.  They did not learn from their loss in 2016, but maybe they will have to learn something this time. 

But it's about making the donor class happy, not ordinary people. 

I agree the Democrats need to face their issues. 

However, people voted for Trump for one or more of several reasons. Take your pick. They are racists, xenophobes, misogynists, bigots, homophobes, Islamophobes, greedy, and/or stupid.

I know a lot of very smart successful people that voted for Trump. They are just plain greedy and want be as wealthy as possible.

I think you are a Democrat that needs to face your issues and it's not going well.  

There are people, especially in Michigan, who voted for Trump because they won't vote for genocide and that is a red line.  It's true that Trump is not likely to do better but presently the Biden/Harris administration are the ones overseeing this.  These people wanted to vote for someone who could win so they did not vote 3rd party.  

These people would call you a genocide supporter for your Harris vote.  You are a person for whom genocide was not a red line.  It was acceptable for you. That makes you, according to those with that view, a type of racist, and all the other things you mentioned, including stupid.

I'm not calling you these things.  I'm just saying that your view of "the other" is very narrow and benighted.

Trump supports Netanyahu and Putin and Kim Jong Un and you are saying Democrats that voted for Harris are for genocide. 

Netanyahu is Donald Trump 2.0. Netanyahu and his far-right supporters are overjoyed Trump won the election. People that voted for Trump because they don’t want genocide are delusional.

Harris is enabling the genocide right now.  Trump is not so he is not responsible at the moment.  

We can predict what he will do in the middle east, and it does not look good, but we don't know.  We can refuse to vote for the  person who is committing the act in the present time and we can also refuse to vote for the person who seems to support that approach. By not voting, we are sending a message that there are things we will not tolerate. 

Putin is engaged in a war which we have a very long thread about--I suggest you read that to understand why Putin is not engaging in genocide and why Trump should be engaging with Putin to end this war. This war is about NATO expansion being an existential threat to Russia.  Harris indicated that she just wants to throw more money away in the cesspool that is Ukraine while yet another generation of Ukrainians is slaughtered in the meat grinder. The only way Ukraine can win is if we start WWIII.   That's what Zelensky is trying to do right now and Harris, being ignorant about foreign policy, might lead us into that nightmare. 

Kim Jong Un is the leader of a country.  Presidents should talk to presidents of other countries.  This "we don't talk to dictators" view is a lie and stated by people who have the illusion that the US is still the most powerful country on earth and can just bully everyone else to fall in line.  This is how Harris seems to view things and it is false and dangerous.

nan said:

yahooyahoo said:

nan said:

yahooyahoo said:

nan said:

It's wrongheaded to think that all people who voted for Trump are stupid or racist.  There were many reasons to reject Kamala Harris and each one of them was a big deal.  Many people felt Trump was the lesser evil or they just did not vote or voted 3rd party.  The Democrats can either honestly face these issues or they can go out of business.  They did not learn from their loss in 2016, but maybe they will have to learn something this time. 

But it's about making the donor class happy, not ordinary people. 

I agree the Democrats need to face their issues. 

However, people voted for Trump for one or more of several reasons. Take your pick. They are racists, xenophobes, misogynists, bigots, homophobes, Islamophobes, greedy, and/or stupid.

I know a lot of very smart successful people that voted for Trump. They are just plain greedy and want be as wealthy as possible.

I think you are a Democrat that needs to face your issues and it's not going well.  

There are people, especially in Michigan, who voted for Trump because they won't vote for genocide and that is a red line.  It's true that Trump is not likely to do better but presently the Biden/Harris administration are the ones overseeing this.  These people wanted to vote for someone who could win so they did not vote 3rd party.  

These people would call you a genocide supporter for your Harris vote.  You are a person for whom genocide was not a red line.  It was acceptable for you. That makes you, according to those with that view, a type of racist, and all the other things you mentioned, including stupid.

I'm not calling you these things.  I'm just saying that your view of "the other" is very narrow and benighted.

Trump supports Netanyahu and Putin and Kim Jong Un and you are saying Democrats that voted for Harris are for genocide. 

Netanyahu is Donald Trump 2.0. Netanyahu and his far-right supporters are overjoyed Trump won the election. People that voted for Trump because they don’t want genocide are delusional.

Harris is enabling the genocide right now.  Trump is not so he is not responsible at the moment.  

We can predict what he will do in the middle east, and it does not look good, but we don't know.  We can refuse to vote for the  person who is committing the act in the present time and we can also refuse to vote for the person who seems to support that approach. By not voting, we are sending a message that there are things we will not tolerate. 

Putin is engaged in a war which we have a very long thread about--I suggest you read that to understand why Putin is not engaging in genocide and why Trump should be engaging with Putin to end this war. This war is about NATO expansion being an existential threat to Russia.  Harris indicated that she just wants to throw more money away in the cesspool that is Ukraine while yet another generation of Ukrainians is slaughtered in the meat grinder. The only way Ukraine can win is if we start WWIII.   That's what Zelensky is trying to do right now and Harris, being ignorant about foreign policy, might lead us into that nightmare. 

Kim Jong Un is the leader of a country.  Presidents should talk to presidents of other countries.  This "we don't talk to dictators" view is a lie and stated by people who have the illusion that the US is still the most powerful country on earth and can just bully everyone else to fall in line.  This is how Harris seems to view things and it is false and dangerous.

The acts of genocide that have been committed by Putin and Russia in the Ukraine are well documented. That's not up for debate.

We can debate about what Trump will do in the Middle East and Ukraine. My prediction is Trump will weaken NATO and push for Ukraine to give up substantial portions of its territory to Russia. Regarding Israel, he will probably let Netanyahu do whatever he wants and then take credit whenever the siege in Gaza ends.

yahooyahoo said:

nan said:

yahooyahoo said:

nan said:

yahooyahoo said:

nan said:

It's wrongheaded to think that all people who voted for Trump are stupid or racist.  There were many reasons to reject Kamala Harris and each one of them was a big deal.  Many people felt Trump was the lesser evil or they just did not vote or voted 3rd party.  The Democrats can either honestly face these issues or they can go out of business.  They did not learn from their loss in 2016, but maybe they will have to learn something this time. 

But it's about making the donor class happy, not ordinary people. 

I agree the Democrats need to face their issues. 

However, people voted for Trump for one or more of several reasons. Take your pick. They are racists, xenophobes, misogynists, bigots, homophobes, Islamophobes, greedy, and/or stupid.

I know a lot of very smart successful people that voted for Trump. They are just plain greedy and want be as wealthy as possible.

I think you are a Democrat that needs to face your issues and it's not going well.  

There are people, especially in Michigan, who voted for Trump because they won't vote for genocide and that is a red line.  It's true that Trump is not likely to do better but presently the Biden/Harris administration are the ones overseeing this.  These people wanted to vote for someone who could win so they did not vote 3rd party.  

These people would call you a genocide supporter for your Harris vote.  You are a person for whom genocide was not a red line.  It was acceptable for you. That makes you, according to those with that view, a type of racist, and all the other things you mentioned, including stupid.

I'm not calling you these things.  I'm just saying that your view of "the other" is very narrow and benighted.

Trump supports Netanyahu and Putin and Kim Jong Un and you are saying Democrats that voted for Harris are for genocide. 

Netanyahu is Donald Trump 2.0. Netanyahu and his far-right supporters are overjoyed Trump won the election. People that voted for Trump because they don’t want genocide are delusional.

Harris is enabling the genocide right now.  Trump is not so he is not responsible at the moment.  

We can predict what he will do in the middle east, and it does not look good, but we don't know.  We can refuse to vote for the  person who is committing the act in the present time and we can also refuse to vote for the person who seems to support that approach. By not voting, we are sending a message that there are things we will not tolerate. 

Putin is engaged in a war which we have a very long thread about--I suggest you read that to understand why Putin is not engaging in genocide and why Trump should be engaging with Putin to end this war. This war is about NATO expansion being an existential threat to Russia.  Harris indicated that she just wants to throw more money away in the cesspool that is Ukraine while yet another generation of Ukrainians is slaughtered in the meat grinder. The only way Ukraine can win is if we start WWIII.   That's what Zelensky is trying to do right now and Harris, being ignorant about foreign policy, might lead us into that nightmare. 

Kim Jong Un is the leader of a country.  Presidents should talk to presidents of other countries.  This "we don't talk to dictators" view is a lie and stated by people who have the illusion that the US is still the most powerful country on earth and can just bully everyone else to fall in line.  This is how Harris seems to view things and it is false and dangerous.

The acts of genocide that have been committed by Putin and Russia in the Ukraine are well documented. That's not up for debate.

We can debate about what Trump will do in the Middle East and Ukraine. My prediction is Trump will weaken NATO and push for Ukraine to give up substantial portions of its territory to Russia. Regarding Israel, he will probably let Netanyahu do whatever he wants and then take credit whenever the siege in Gaza ends.

Where is the documentation?   It sure is up for debate unless it was evaluated by an independent body, which it was not.

You don't seem to know much about the Ukraine-Russia war. Your comments and predictions don't make sense. The war is not about territory.  How will Trump weaken NATO?  The Russians already did that.  Would you prefer that Trump start a direct war with Russia (WWIII)?  That is the only option to have the outcome you seem to want.

You seem to feel that Trump or any leader can get the Russians to do what they want.  The Russians are in the driver's seat in Ukraine.  They are winning this war and the sanctions against them were not effective.  They are the ones who will decide how this war ends and we will be the one making concessions.  

I have no idea how things will go in Israel--I just know that Trump is beholden to that Adeleson woman so he will probably be doing whatever she wants.  

I think Trump will align with Musk offering to rebuild Ukraine in exchange for them giving up some land to Putin.

Hatched that theory, since Musk mumbled once about rebuilding Gaza.

I'm not saying this is a viable plan, just wondering if that was what the phone call to Zelensky was about.

Trump always acts like a guy who feels anything can be solved if you throw money at it. If Zelensky worries that Trump may slow down funds, it might be a deal he would consider. Then who knows what kind of numbers could be considered and what good old Elon would want in return. Just a thought.

nan said:

yahooyahoo said:

nan said:

It's wrongheaded to think that all people who voted for Trump are stupid or racist.  There were many reasons to reject Kamala Harris and each one of them was a big deal.  Many people felt Trump was the lesser evil or they just did not vote or voted 3rd party.  The Democrats can either honestly face these issues or they can go out of business.  They did not learn from their loss in 2016, but maybe they will have to learn something this time. 

But it's about making the donor class happy, not ordinary people. 

I agree the Democrats need to face their issues. 

However, people voted for Trump for one or more of several reasons. Take your pick. They are racists, xenophobes, misogynists, bigots, homophobes, Islamophobes, greedy, and/or stupid.

I know a lot of very smart successful people that voted for Trump. They are just plain greedy and want be as wealthy as possible.

I think you are a Democrat that needs to face your issues and it's not going well.  

There are people, especially in Michigan, who voted for Trump because they won't vote for genocide and that is a red line.  It's true that Trump is not likely to do better but presently the Biden/Harris administration are the ones overseeing this.  These people wanted to vote for someone who could win so they did not vote 3rd party.  

These people would call you a genocide supporter for your Harris vote.  You are a person for whom genocide was not a red line.  It was acceptable for you. That makes you, according to those with that view, a type of racist, and all the other things you mentioned, including stupid.

I'm not calling you these things.  I'm just saying that your view of "the other" is very narrow and benighted.

2 questions

1. do you think that not voting for Harris over mideast concerns was a moral choice? or effective in some way? or in any way good? other than to assuage the voter's conscience?

2. Now that we have Huckabee as Amb to Israel, who "supports" Israel only because of biblical end times crap and is a proud Islamophobe - does this validate that choice in any way?

drummerboy said:

2 questions

1. do you think that not voting for Harris over mideast concerns was a moral choice? or effective in some way? or in any way good? other than to assuage the voter's conscience?

2. Now that we have Huckabee as Amb to Israel, who "supports" Israel only because of biblical end times crap and is a proud Islamophobe - does this validate that choice in any way?

In other words, "Now that Trump is doing exactly what everyone knew or should have known he would do ..."

nohero said:

drummerboy said:

2 questions

1. do you think that not voting for Harris over mideast concerns was a moral choice? or effective in some way? or in any way good? other than to assuage the voter's conscience?

2. Now that we have Huckabee as Amb to Israel, who "supports" Israel only because of biblical end times crap and is a proud Islamophobe - does this validate that choice in any way?

In other words, "Now that Trump is doing exactly what everyone knew or should have known he would do ..."

Huckabee doesn’t recognize the West Bank and has no problem with Israelis taking land from others. Congrats to anyone who voted for Trump. 

People who do things like voting for Trump on the logic of "it can't get any worse" really have a very limited imagination.