Is a water heater a commodity?

What drives your decision to hire one company or another to install a replacement water heater? Is it price? Do you do research on either the water heaters or installing contractors before choosing? Does quality of installing materials/valves/piping configuration enter the equation? Are you just as happy using flexible water and gas pipes in your home as you would be with threaded rigid pipes?

Do you choose radiator-heating boiler replacements the same way, or are these items, boilers and water heaters and their installations, simply commodities?

Discuss.

I decide mostly by the plumber and how I feel about them. Do I trust them, and do I envision a good working, long-term relationship? This applies to water heaters and boilers. Mostly, I let them choose the supplies and materials, because they'll be needing to work with them and on them, and their judgment is generally better than mine.

At this point, I would ask the plumber that I trust what he would recommend.

As above, I trust my plumber to help and guide me to the right decision.

I'm picky. I want a plumber using rigid pipe, not Pex. I'm probably an annoying customer, as I hover and ask questions. I haven't used the services of a plumber much (although I'm currently tempted to just call one to finish the toilet repair my spouse has left undone for the past 2 weeks since the flapper change didn't stop the water from slowly running).

That said, as a new homeowner, I started with one plumber because of 'price', but wasn't happy with their work. I also don't like plumbers that smoke right outside my house, so the smell wafts right in the garage or open windows, and also makes the house smell when he came in to finish the work.

Then I went with another plumber due to availability on weekends for an emergency, which wasn't cheap, and it's a company that seems to have a fleet of young inexperienced plumbers who can do basic stuff, but are not worth the arm-and-a-leg that they charge. (Although, after they came to give the estimate, and I didn't want to pay the arm-and-leg, and said I'd just wait for a weekday plumber, then they negotiated on price -- but it was still high). (They start with a "W")

I'm going to also say that as a clueless homeowner, I don't know where plumbers start and end. I have central air heat, for which I have a service person I trust, and have worked with for several years. He was the one who called me back personally, and told me over the phone, for free, how to manage my issue. So, he was a keeper.

Unfortunately, when I had to have my hot water heater replaced quickly, I didn't realize that would have been within his area of expertise or I would have gone with him for that as well. That said, I don't think he does the kitchen sink/toilet installations... but maybe I should ask before I dismiss that out of hand.

So.. to answer your question: I think there are a lot of factors that go into who to hire for various home maintenance/updating expenses. Some are cluelessness about what trade fits the need, what quality is needed (limited budgets require prioritizing, and I also don't have much of an idea of the cost/benefit of various levels of quality), and various other components of importance that vary by customer (price, availability, warranty, or information provided that leaves one confident that the work was well done, smoke smell, if they scratched anything up, left a mess afterward, or if they seem careful with the counters/floors, and wipe things off and vacuum up after, etc.)

ETA: I used another plumber who asked me to take photos of what needed replacement and text it to him so he could pick it up without coming over first. I think he gave me an estimate based on the texts and my description of the work. I liked that as it was a time saver for both of us. However, I can see how that could put off other customers who are used to an in-person review and estimate.

in the long run, knowledge is power. If you know even a little about water heaters and boilers before yours breaks you can ask intelligent questions when interviewing plumbers. I do most of my own work, but when I do hire someone I let them tell me why they recommend a certain product over another.

@MP,

Depends on the job. Oil to gas boiler conversion- used a PSEG approved plumber. HWH- I did myself twice. First time lasted 21 years. Second one less than 5 yrs ago was looked over by plumber doing other work- I got his seal of OK. That was almost 3 yrs ago.

My husband decides to do the work himself. Then we hire the first plumber that is wiling to come and rescue us.

I have a home appliance warranty, so for a replacement I had to use their contractor. He had to come to the house several times (once to assess, then to deliver the hot water heater, then another day to install it). He did an adequate job (as far as I can tell) but I would NEVER hire him if I had the choice.

He was a loudmouth know-it-all with strong opinions on politics, guns, etc., that he gladly shared. He also informed me that other work that had been done on the house had been done poorly; that I'd picked a bad homeowners insurer and so on. I work from home, so I was stuck listening to his blather all day. I don't mind some pleasant chat, but this was way over the top.

(I should add that I no longer live in SO, so this is not a local plumber)

We have used our long-time plumber and long time oil company (Woolley) to replace our water heater and boiler, respectively. Not having any expertise in water heaters or boilers, we accepted their recommendations and have been very satisfied with their performance. We maintain our boiler on an annual basis and have never run out of oil because the company is so competent at scheduling deliveries based on the weather. As tempting as it might be to think of either boilers or water heaters--or, even plumbers-- as commodities, going with the cheapest might be more expensive in the long run.

From my perspective, the key is to find a firm that is reliable, trustworthy and knowledgeable and stick with them. Our go-to plumber is a second-generation Maplewood plumber solo practitioner. When a job has required a larger firm, he has given solid recommendations. Most of the plumbers repeatedly recommended on MOL have earned solid reputations and have great experience with our old, quirky homes. The couple of times I went with a random firm I was highly disappointed--particularly, with the mega-firm that advertises 24 hour emergency coverage that Sprout cited above.

I'm unconvinced that some of the newer, flexible hoses, etc. have the longevity of copper and standard rigid piping.

If we had to replace our water heater, I'd do a little research on the different brands/models and then I'd call our regular plumber who has provided excellent service to us during the four years that we have owned our house. The only time that we have requested estimates from other companies was last fall when we replaced our boiler. Our plumber estimate wasn't the lowest, but it was in the ballpark and we trust them to do a good job.

I choose plumbers, electricians, painters, et. al. based on personal recommendations, reviews (when available), and face-to-face interaction. Then I depend on the person chosen to provide the expertise.

I did a lot of independent research about water heaters when we replaced ours few years back. The pros and cons of different types, sizes, brands, etc. I didn't hire any plumbing company who didn't come to the site, inspected it thoroughly and gave a recommendation on what needed to be done and why; and who didn't answer a myriad of questions, stupid or not, that were based on my independent research. We ended up with Gateway who installed an indirect water heater. And so far I'm happy with the heater and their installation.

Apollo_T said:
used a PSEG approved plumber

There is a lot to comment on in this thread, but I want to make this point:

"A PSEG approved plumber" is no better than any other licensed, insured plumber. The "approval" process is absurd and speaks to nothing about the skill set or competence of the company. To be approved, one only needs to show proof of license and insurance the day they are signed to the referral program.

Well, as a long time DIY guy (mostly due to lack of or short of funds) I changed over time. I have evolved to a person that does independent research on the target product. (Boiler, Hot Water units, and what not) Then it much more a search for a Plumber that I can talk with and come to trust. It is all about relationship at that point. Rigid vs. flex; up to my trusted Plumber as long as I agree. Example: If my trusted Plumber wanted to go copper on a boiler header; I'd have a lot of questions.

Plumbing Companies. Well, I use them and I will work with the kid on the truck, as long as I know the owner-Master Plumber and know that he is involved.

"PSE& G Approved' (or that like contract people) NOT interested. In my head they start as the Lowest priced bidder to PSE&G and will have to cut corners, break appointments, skip quality and even use cheaper product to make a $$. All said and done, we all have to consider the $$, both on the contractor side and the buyer side.

I have learned that paying the lowest $$ for a service weather it be a roofer, plumber, electrician or what not; is not always the lowest price in the long game.

Later,

George in Jersey

The fact is that, at the level were talking about, a tank-type, free-standing, gas-fired water heater with an open flame on the bottom and connected to the chimney, there's no significant difference from one manufacturer to another. The only difference is in the quality of the installation and the pipe-soldering and gas piping skill of the installer. I've seen enough flexible hoses burst to know that I don't want one in my house under any circumstances. Forget the pressure rating and warranty of the hoses, they break at their pressed-on pipe connections. I've seen it happen maybe a dozen times in as many years, over hundreds of instances, but that's enough for me.

Copper fittings pull apart too but with far less frequency and it's **always** due to installer error.

A water heater is a solid 10-year purchase of a big gas-burning, carbon monoxide-spewing tank of water that sits in the envelope of your home.

I just want to confirm that low price is not the criteria we use to select an installer.

Once we get out of this type of heater, like when talking about indirect water heaters or instantaneous water heaters, things get a little more tricky and you have to think more about the equipment.

when I shop for a plumber I'm not looking for low price, but I am looking for consistency. I'm doing a good sized renovation right now. I hired a plumber. I got three estimates, each if which took two visits. Two were in the same range and one was double that. I went with the one of the two where I felt the plumber understood me a little better, although the other guy would probably have been fine.

FilmCarp said:

when I shop for a plumber I'm not looking for low price, but I am looking for consistency. I'm doing a good sized renovation right now. I hired a plumber. I got three estimates, each if which took two visits. Two were in the same range and one was double that. I went with the one of the two where I felt the plumber understood me a little better, although the other guy would probably have been fine.

That's interesting. Did your contractor not provide the plumber? Usually that's how that goes.

I am the GC . I've been a carpenter for 30 years. For the record, est 1 was "between 10 and 12k", est 2 was 11k. Est 3 was 23,500. I went with 2, but 1 seemed a good guy as well.

Many years ago when branching out on my own, I asked a local plumbing supply house owner who's wisdom and business savvy I admired if he had any advice.

He said,

"Three things...Watch your money, watch your money and NEVER work for builders!"

plungy said:

Many years ago when branching out on my own, I asked a local plumbing supply house owner who's wisdom and business savvy I admired if he had any advice.

He said,

"Three things...Watch your money, watch your money and NEVER work for builders!"

Meaning what, exactly? Don't let others do your estimates? Or don't do rough ins? I called a few guys who turned me down because they don't do rough ins. I was curious as to why not. Can you enlighten me?

the last water heater I replaced was by Gateway... So with that caveat -

It wasn't an emergency, so had time to ask. Learned a lot. Needed a high volume of hot water for bathroom that was being updated.

Thought I needed a much larger unit, but no, Master Plumber suggested a high recovery, high efficiency unit - which had the advantage of being smaller and fitting well in the space without added changes.

Handled the large garden tub, master shower with multiple heads and body sprays, along with other bathrooms being used by multiple teens - huge water users in themselves.

But had the thing just leaked, and I didn't know Gateway - and gotten a replacement pronto, I'd probably have just gotten a regular, larger heater. So maybe education is key - even in your ads and marketing materials?!

FilmCarp said:

plungy said:

Many years ago when branching out on my own, I asked a local plumbing supply house owner who's wisdom and business savvy I admired if he had any advice.

He said,

"Three things...Watch your money, watch your money and NEVER work for builders!"

Meaning what, exactly? Don't let others do your estimates? Or don't do rough ins? I called a few guys who turned me down because they don't do rough ins. I was curious as to why not. Can you enlighten me?

I think his reasoning was, when the builder goes broke, YOU go broke.

Also most builders have a very singular criteria for selecting subs. (;

As an engineer by education and a guy who works with tools a lot for a hobby (restoring airplanes), I'm probably a nightmare for trades. I know enough... to be dangerous That said, my experience with plumbing and heating over the last 15 years owning our house has been really eye-opening. There's a HUGE difference between good and bad, but it's not always easy to tell until it's too late. One example:

Our gas-fired steam boiler which was in the process of failing was replaced recently by a well-regarded (maybe even beloved?) local company. The sales guy convinced us to go with a major brand and incorporate an indirect water heater since the existing one was already 12 years old. Made sense, and a quick online look suggested it would be a viable option.

The installation started fine, then stalled. I noticed a lot of head scratching and cursing, but I stayed out of it. I don't like people hovering over my work, so I gave them space. End of day 1 we had heat and "limited hot water." Day 2 they came back and ripped out their piping to the water heater and started over. More head scratching and calls to Weill McClain tech support. End of day 2, we supposedly had heat and hot water.

Morning of day 3 I woke up to take my shower. It had been a relatively warm late-Winter night and we turn our heat down low at night. No hot water. Not in 1 minute. Not in 5 minutes. Light bulb goes on in my head and I turn up the thermostat. Finally some hot water. Obviously, not the way indirect is supposed to work; the wiring that calls for heat to the HW heater was wrong. Another day of work, head scratching, etc.

Day 4 I asked them to ensure that the wiring was correct for my smart Thermostat (Ecobee). Note: I didn't ask them to wire it. Just wanted to make sure we had the three wires required for a gravity steam system. They were.. um... perplexed. I ended up just having them put in an old-school Honeywell. I actually went down with my trusty multi-meter and sussed out the wiring scheme which I ended up confirming directly with a very helpful engineer at Well-McClain. Turns out they had actually made a minor mistake (not critical to the functioning but annoying) which I fixed easily.

Sorry - this post got a bit long. The big problem in our case was that the installers saw $$$ with the increased scope of work. They didn't have the integrity to tell me that "oh by the way, we've never actually implemented this system." Then, when it started to go off the rails, they weren't very forthcoming. By the end, I'd realized I know more about basic wiring than their guy in the field, so I ended up finishing part of the job myself.

@plungy

Man ain't that the truth lol builders are the worst.

Mp is right about PSE&G also companies like Home Depot they hire any hack company that is able to magically maintain a license and insurance to save money remember you get what you pay for.

catch22 said:

As an engineer by education and a guy who works with tools a lot for a hobby (restoring airplanes), I'm probably a nightmare for trades. I know enough... to be dangerous

It sounds like your story has a happy ending. My spouse, also an engineer by education, started to fix a running toilet a few weeks ago. He's refusing to be defeated by it, which means it's still not usable. And now I see some duct tape in the tank. *sigh*

plungy said:
Many years ago when branching out on my own, I asked a local plumbing supply house owner who's wisdom and business savvy I admired if he had any advice.
He said,
"Three things...Watch your money, watch your money and NEVER work for builders!"

 ...So I wonder what it was about doing new construction that appealed to Todd Williams, who (without the support he deserved from his corporate "marriage" with Wooley) I believe left to, yes: work for builders...

-s

BTW: Dennis O'Neill is da man.