Cohen just reached a plea deal.

hmmm. I don’t understand this development...


From comments dribbling out of the courtroom, in admitting guilt on campaign finance law violations, Cohen says he did so at the direction of the candidate.

sbenois said:
Trumpy is dead meat.

 Don't count your dead chickens before they croak.


sbenois said:
Trumpy is dead meat.

Yes,   He’s a piece of rotting, bloated, dead meat.   And yet millions of Americans elected him President. 


sbenois said:
Trumpy is dead meat.

 this won't matter.  His base won't care, and as a result, Congress will not hold him accountable.  I'm still waiting for him to shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue.  Which he will also get away with.

Forty percent of America literally prefers a criminal in the White House to a Democrat.


ml1 said:



Forty percent of America literally prefers a criminal in the White House to a Democrat.

 30-40% consider all Democrats to be criminals. 30-40% consider all Republicans to be criminals.

What % considers all politicians to be criminals?


Apparently here a poll quoted in one of the daily papers found that around 70% of voters reckon most politicians are corrupt.

I'm on my way out otherwise I'd post the link.


there’s a pretty big difference between “corrupt” and “criminal”.


we're calling for a federal Commission to investigate claims of corruptions. If these are proven, criminal charges are laid. For us, this poll is a very big deal.


ml1 said:


sbenois said:
Trumpy is dead meat.
 this won't matter.  His base won't care, and as a result, Congress will not hold him accountable.  I'm still waiting for him to shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue.  Which he will also get away with.
Forty percent of America literally prefers a criminal in the White House to a Democrat.

Yeah, most likely he survives this one. The crime is an obscure FEC violation, no one cares.

But, if Cohen decides to blab more on Trump as a result of the deal, then maybe....


drummerboy said:


ml1 said:

sbenois said:
Trumpy is dead meat.
 this won't matter.  His base won't care, and as a result, Congress will not hold him accountable.  I'm still waiting for him to shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue.  Which he will also get away with.
Forty percent of America literally prefers a criminal in the White House to a Democrat.
Yeah, most likely he survives this one. The crime is an obscure FEC violation, no one cares.
But, if Cohen decides to blab more on Trump as a result of the deal, then maybe....

From what I've seen on social media, I can't think of a single thing Trump could do to lose his supporters.  And those supporters will vote out any GOP congress people in primaries if they do anything to stand up to Dear Leader.

He will be in office for his full term, and hopefully the next election will finally remove him.  But he will not be removed from office, and he likely won't even be impeached if the Democrats take the House.  Why would they bother to impeach, knowing they won't have the votes in the Senate for removal.

As I've written here several times, Trump is not the cause of what's wrong with U.S. politics.  He's the symptom.  And because of that, all the factors that created Trump's presidency are going to keep him in office.  And worse yet, even when Trump is gone, most of the awfulness that he's perpetrating on the country will continue under the Republican Party.  Our country needs much more fundamental change than making the Donald disappear.


I think Michael Cohen looks worried and scared. He will probably tell all. Will there be retribution from Trump? Just watched The Godfather 1,2,and 3,something I'd never seen. Trump really reminds me of some of these characters.


ml1 said:


From what I've seen on social media, I can't think of a single thing Trump could do to lose his supporters.   Our country needs much more fundamental change than making the Donald disappear.

 He said they'd support him even if he shot someone in public. It's a cult.

You are correct about fundamental change but getting rid of Trump would be a good start.

( My "Like" button doesn't work on this device)


LOST said:


ml1 said:


From what I've seen on social media, I can't think of a single thing Trump could do to lose his supporters.   Our country needs much more fundamental change than making the Donald disappear.
 He said they'd support him even if he shot someone in public. It's a cult.
You are correct about fundamental change but getting rid of Trump would be a good start.
( My "Like" button doesn't work on this device)

 Funny thing is, W Bush's followers were something of a cult as well from 9/11 until the Iraq war went bad.  I joked on MOL back in the day that W could have pulled a gun out of his jacket and shot Ted Kennedy dead during the SOTU on live TV and his followers wouldn't have deserted him. In fact, they would have said getting rid of the most liberal senator was a good thing, and Bush had to do it for the good of the country.

Again, even with regard to the cult of personality, Trump is a symptom, not a cause.  There are tens of millions of people who will blindly follow any Republican leader.  Because even if the person is a malignant narcissist, con artist, crook, thief, incompetent, or psychotic, at least he's not a Democrat.  (Liberal tears a bonus)


I don't think you can compare a leader of a political Party no matter how popular to a leader of a cult. George Bush, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama had loyal followers but that was based mostly on their policies and Party Loyalty.

Trump's cult followers would support him even if he shot someone but they would also support him if he left the Republican Party or if he came out in favor of Single Payer. The only "policy" that attracts them to Trump is racial resentment. Otherwise they are loyal to him as a personality.


LOST said:
I don't think you can compare a leader of a political Party no matter how popular to a leader of a cult. George Bush, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama had loyal followers but that was based mostly on their policies and Party Loyalty.
Trump's cult followers would support him even if he shot someone but they would also support him if he left the Republican Party or if he came out in favor of Single Payer. The only "policy" that attracts them to Trump is racial resentment. Otherwise they are loyal to him as a personality.

There were people who literally believed Bush was chosen by God to be president.  That's pretty much the definition of a cult.

The old pro Bartlett, a deliberative, fact-based wonk, is finally hearing a tune that has been hummed quietly by evangelicals (so as not to trouble the secular) for years as they gazed upon President George W. Bush. This evangelical group -- the core of the energetic "base" that may well usher Bush to victory -- believes that their leader is a messenger from God. And in the first presidential debate, many Americans heard the discursive John Kerry succinctly raise, for the first time, the issue of Bush's certainty -- the issue being, as Kerry put it, that "you can be certain and be wrong."

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/faith-certainty-and-the-presidency-of-george-w-bush.html

I think a lot of folks here in SOMA don't seem to want to believe that Trump may be an outlier in terms of past presidential behavior, but he is not at all an outlier within today's Republican Party.  There is a distinct danger in underestimating how extreme the party's voters are.  There are probably 30-40 million people out there who like Trump because he is the personification of their most important values.


Dershowitz explains that a hush payment directly from Trump would have been perfectly legal.

The fact that Cohen paid it made it a campaign violation.

Trump supporters don't care that he pays hush money to women.

What Cohen knows in regards to DNC emails will be more damning.  


jamie said:
Dershowitz explains that a hush payment directly from Trump would have been perfectly legal.
The fact that Cohen paid it made it a campaign violation.
Trump supporters don't care that he pays hush money to women.
What Cohen knows in regards to DNC emails will be more damning.  

It was more the fact that he didn't declare it that made it illegal. He could have paid her with his own money. There's nothing illegal about that.

Given that Republicans have no problem with his assaulting women and verbally attacking minorities, I really doubt that they would have given a rat's @ss about his cheating and pay-offs.


If Cohen is guilty for doing this under Trump's direction, isn't Trump also guilty?


And yet I specifically recall Hannity criticizing Obama for putting mustard on his hamburger without ketchup. 


steel said:
And yet I specifically recall Hannity criticizing Obama for putting mustard on his hamburger without ketchup. 

 and liking arugula


ml1 said:


There were people who literally believed Bush was chosen by God to be president.  That's pretty much the definition of a cult.



 People who believe that GOD controls everything can believe that without being a cult. I am sure there are many who believe Obama was chosen by God.

Trump's followers believe him to be the Messiah or maybe even believe that Trump is God.


cult
  • a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing. "a cult of personality surrounding the leaders"
    "

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